Stella
Jan 12, 08:07 AM
If this machine is truly is what the rumour suggests then what is the point?
A thinner MacBook that doesn't have any CD drives?
There has got to be some information that is missing.
Cool name though!
A thinner MacBook that doesn't have any CD drives?
There has got to be some information that is missing.
Cool name though!
faroZ06
Apr 3, 02:15 AM
I just realized how bad "magical" sounded in that!!!
Way to ruin the ad, whoever wrote that into the script :mad:
Anyway I never see Apple ads on TV, and I don't know which channels they are on :confused:
Way to ruin the ad, whoever wrote that into the script :mad:
Anyway I never see Apple ads on TV, and I don't know which channels they are on :confused:
JGowan
May 3, 12:45 AM
MAS? The Muslim American Society? The Municipal Art Society of NY? Malaysia Airlines? Monetary Authority of Singapore?
Try MacAppStore (you know, the generic name with Mac in front of it)It was a joke. "Muslim American Society"?... if that doesn't spell joke, I dunno what would. :rolleyes:
Try MacAppStore (you know, the generic name with Mac in front of it)It was a joke. "Muslim American Society"?... if that doesn't spell joke, I dunno what would. :rolleyes:
serafin
Feb 8, 04:50 PM
Oh dear chaps, mine looks almost feeble compared to your big American monster cars!
I have exactly the same. Same rims, also 2doors, and same color. Just dont tell me that your one is 2.0 TDI
:D
I have exactly the same. Same rims, also 2doors, and same color. Just dont tell me that your one is 2.0 TDI
:D
BlizzardBomb
Sep 1, 11:58 AM
My guess: 17" dropping to $1,099, 20" to $1,499
$1,999 with more hd, a gig of ram and, hopefully, (i do doubt it though as well) a nice gpu (at least as bto, unlikely though for the imac).
I'd order one right away! :cool:
$1,999 is pushing it a bit IMO. :)
I highly doubt they would killl it off. I think they'd drop the price on it which would make it even more desirable for standard consumers with a budget. Sort of a, why get the mini when I could just pay a bit more for the iMac 17" kind of thing.
Good point, although the suffocating the Mini would be a problem. If the updated Mini is decent enough it should be able to survive though.
$1,999 with more hd, a gig of ram and, hopefully, (i do doubt it though as well) a nice gpu (at least as bto, unlikely though for the imac).
I'd order one right away! :cool:
$1,999 is pushing it a bit IMO. :)
I highly doubt they would killl it off. I think they'd drop the price on it which would make it even more desirable for standard consumers with a budget. Sort of a, why get the mini when I could just pay a bit more for the iMac 17" kind of thing.
Good point, although the suffocating the Mini would be a problem. If the updated Mini is decent enough it should be able to survive though.
Chef Medeski
Jul 14, 11:44 AM
From Wiki:
Holographic disks: standards with 200 and 300 GB storage are under development and prototypes expected in 2008
I've heard about Mac users waiting, but 5 years for most likely the first consumer device if lucky, 6 for probably first computer device. 2012.... yes exactly when I wanted to buy my next laptop after the next four I plan to purchase.
Holographic disks: standards with 200 and 300 GB storage are under development and prototypes expected in 2008
I've heard about Mac users waiting, but 5 years for most likely the first consumer device if lucky, 6 for probably first computer device. 2012.... yes exactly when I wanted to buy my next laptop after the next four I plan to purchase.
Bromac
Sep 27, 11:01 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2010/09/14/consumer-reports-holds-strong-on-iphone-4-non-recommendation/)
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2010/09/14/093156-iphone_4_case.jpg
Influential ratings magazine Consumer Reports generated waves earlier this year by deciding that it couldn't recommend (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/consumer-reports-cant-recommend-iphone-4-due-to-signal-issues/) the iPhone 4 to potential customers due to its antenna issues, despite the fact that the device garnered the top score (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/aside-from-signal-issue-consumer-reports-rates-iphone-4-highest-amongst-all-smartphones/) in the magazine's ratings of smartphones. With Apple's offer of free cases made at its July press conference about the issue, the magazine maintained its non-recommendation (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/16/consumer-reports-still-not-recommending-iphone-4/), claiming that the temporary program was insufficient in addressing the problem.
Now that Apple has officially announced that it will be ending the free case program (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/09/10/apples-free-iphone-4-case-program-to-end-september-30th/) as of September 30th, Consumer Reports has once again noted its displeasure with Apple's treatment of the issue and declined to add the device to its list of recommended models.Apple has indicated that any customers experiencing reception issues on their iPhone 4s should contact AppleCare to obtain free cases, opting to end the blanket program in favor of an on-request policy to address what the company believes is a very small number of customers affected by the issue.
Article Link: 'Consumer Reports' Holds Strong on iPhone 4 Non-Recommendation (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2010/09/14/consumer-reports-holds-strong-on-iphone-4-non-recommendation/)
I got the iphone 4 and it is out of this world!!!!!!
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2010/09/14/093156-iphone_4_case.jpg
Influential ratings magazine Consumer Reports generated waves earlier this year by deciding that it couldn't recommend (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/consumer-reports-cant-recommend-iphone-4-due-to-signal-issues/) the iPhone 4 to potential customers due to its antenna issues, despite the fact that the device garnered the top score (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/aside-from-signal-issue-consumer-reports-rates-iphone-4-highest-amongst-all-smartphones/) in the magazine's ratings of smartphones. With Apple's offer of free cases made at its July press conference about the issue, the magazine maintained its non-recommendation (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/16/consumer-reports-still-not-recommending-iphone-4/), claiming that the temporary program was insufficient in addressing the problem.
Now that Apple has officially announced that it will be ending the free case program (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/09/10/apples-free-iphone-4-case-program-to-end-september-30th/) as of September 30th, Consumer Reports has once again noted its displeasure with Apple's treatment of the issue and declined to add the device to its list of recommended models.Apple has indicated that any customers experiencing reception issues on their iPhone 4s should contact AppleCare to obtain free cases, opting to end the blanket program in favor of an on-request policy to address what the company believes is a very small number of customers affected by the issue.
Article Link: 'Consumer Reports' Holds Strong on iPhone 4 Non-Recommendation (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2010/09/14/consumer-reports-holds-strong-on-iphone-4-non-recommendation/)
I got the iphone 4 and it is out of this world!!!!!!
ipodG8TR
Aug 16, 12:38 PM
And why not offer clips from Sirius shows, namely Stern, as downloads from iTunes? Apple already allows explicit content (think every Hip Hop song), so there shouldn't be a problem.
Song paradies and other clips would sell like hotcakes for .99!
Stern isn't for everyone, but millions of fans would bring some serious attention and cash to Apple.
Song paradies and other clips would sell like hotcakes for .99!
Stern isn't for everyone, but millions of fans would bring some serious attention and cash to Apple.
arn
Jan 11, 08:01 PM
Maybe it would be called the AirMac. That would be an interesting name instead of the MacBook Air.
AirMac is actually the name of an Apple product in Japan. I believe its just an Airport
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirMac
arn
AirMac is actually the name of an Apple product in Japan. I believe its just an Airport
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirMac
arn
Macula
Oct 23, 11:14 PM
Why NAND?
Because I am just obsessed with system responsiveness. I can tolerate things like slow peripheral throughput or a less than stellar GPU, but hiccups and delays are such a turnoff! I would be relieved to see applications load 30-50% faster, with all their components instantly fetched, and with lightning fast task-switching.
Besides, NAND-supported computers is a paradigmatic shift of sorts and, as such, a very exciting prospect.
I just hope NAND is included in the first generation of Santa-Rosa iMacs and laptops!
Because I am just obsessed with system responsiveness. I can tolerate things like slow peripheral throughput or a less than stellar GPU, but hiccups and delays are such a turnoff! I would be relieved to see applications load 30-50% faster, with all their components instantly fetched, and with lightning fast task-switching.
Besides, NAND-supported computers is a paradigmatic shift of sorts and, as such, a very exciting prospect.
I just hope NAND is included in the first generation of Santa-Rosa iMacs and laptops!
Schizoid
Mar 24, 06:57 PM
This is potentially great news...
I had a stock ATI 5850 in the Mac Pro for a while, OS X didn't like it but Windows ran it perfectly... in the end bit the bullet and bought a 5870 Mac edition for about twice the market value of a standard PC card!
Great decision though, the Mac now runs about 20 times faster... not just games either... the whole UI is great now (I guess thanks to OpenCL et al)
...and whoever decided the GT120 was a good card for a Mac Pro needs to be shot!
I had a stock ATI 5850 in the Mac Pro for a while, OS X didn't like it but Windows ran it perfectly... in the end bit the bullet and bought a 5870 Mac edition for about twice the market value of a standard PC card!
Great decision though, the Mac now runs about 20 times faster... not just games either... the whole UI is great now (I guess thanks to OpenCL et al)
...and whoever decided the GT120 was a good card for a Mac Pro needs to be shot!
Lord Blackadder
Feb 22, 08:54 PM
I also think cost is a big problem. There is an increase at the pump, and on the sticker. The VW Golf TDI, for example, starts at almost $4k more than the 2.4L 5 cylinder (four door models here). You would have to put a lot of miles on that thing to get that money back. I do agree with you on diesel vs. hybrid, as I like diesels, but it will be a hard sell here in the US. Hybrids have really taken off in this market.
The vexing part of that is that the cost is largely artificial - i.e. taxes. Popular pickups like the Ford F-250 have been available in a diesel for years, and because they are trucks they are allowed to use diesel engines that are far more polluting and sooty than they need to be, and are tuned for torque rather than economy - meanwhile Volkswagen has to jump through flaming hoops in order to certify a diesel in its passenger cars, meeting stringent emmissions standards. And yet how many huge displacement V6/V8 diesel trucks are sold in the US each year vs diesel VWs? It's all about arbitrary regulatory nonsense.
It's a small thing, but also in diesel's favor is the increased range you get from a tank of fuel. So while the cost savings isn't much because of the fuel tax, you still get to go farther.
I don't think the Oldsmobile thing has that big an impact on current buyers. It was 30 years ago, after all. I do think diesels do have an image problem, though, in that most people here associate them with loud, smoke belching semis, and heavy-duty pickups.
As I said above, I question that also. It happened thirty years ago - automotive journalists might know about it, but most car buyers don't, and the memory is continually fading.
The vexing part of that is that the cost is largely artificial - i.e. taxes. Popular pickups like the Ford F-250 have been available in a diesel for years, and because they are trucks they are allowed to use diesel engines that are far more polluting and sooty than they need to be, and are tuned for torque rather than economy - meanwhile Volkswagen has to jump through flaming hoops in order to certify a diesel in its passenger cars, meeting stringent emmissions standards. And yet how many huge displacement V6/V8 diesel trucks are sold in the US each year vs diesel VWs? It's all about arbitrary regulatory nonsense.
It's a small thing, but also in diesel's favor is the increased range you get from a tank of fuel. So while the cost savings isn't much because of the fuel tax, you still get to go farther.
I don't think the Oldsmobile thing has that big an impact on current buyers. It was 30 years ago, after all. I do think diesels do have an image problem, though, in that most people here associate them with loud, smoke belching semis, and heavy-duty pickups.
As I said above, I question that also. It happened thirty years ago - automotive journalists might know about it, but most car buyers don't, and the memory is continually fading.
Billy Boo Bob
Jun 23, 09:38 AM
It's amazing how many people fear that "All you'll be able to do is touch your screen to operate this thing"... "I need a mouse and keyboard"... "My arm will get tired"...
Do any of you whiners understand what a LAYER means? On top of good ol' normal OS X a developer can incorporate parts of an app that can (not necessarily must) be operated by touch. The iOS is NOT going to be the only way to operate it. You can still operate all of your favorite apps with a keyboard and mouse all day long.
"I don't want fingerprints on my screen!".... Well then don't run any apps that are touch enabled. Run any and all of your keyboard/mouse apps you want to all day long.
And... Have you ever been to a bar and seen those coin operated touch screen card game thingies? I worked at a bar for many years and I've seen people play them for hours at a time. It's not as bad as everyone fears.
I would like very much to see a mix of traditional OS X and iOS touch capabilities. I see kids software selling like mad. I've been working on a custom page layout app for a classifieds type of paper. Some touch for Drag-N-Drop operations in parts of it would be a welcome addition.
Do any of you whiners understand what a LAYER means? On top of good ol' normal OS X a developer can incorporate parts of an app that can (not necessarily must) be operated by touch. The iOS is NOT going to be the only way to operate it. You can still operate all of your favorite apps with a keyboard and mouse all day long.
"I don't want fingerprints on my screen!".... Well then don't run any apps that are touch enabled. Run any and all of your keyboard/mouse apps you want to all day long.
And... Have you ever been to a bar and seen those coin operated touch screen card game thingies? I worked at a bar for many years and I've seen people play them for hours at a time. It's not as bad as everyone fears.
I would like very much to see a mix of traditional OS X and iOS touch capabilities. I see kids software selling like mad. I've been working on a custom page layout app for a classifieds type of paper. Some touch for Drag-N-Drop operations in parts of it would be a welcome addition.
Multimedia
Aug 28, 08:10 PM
I still can't decide between this setup and a 20" iMac (educ discount) for my TV requirements... hmm.. the iMac's audio input isn't optical so that may swing it towards the mini.Keeping components separate is much wiser. You can keep the 24" Screen when you upgrade the mini in future. iMac is a problem when either screen or computer break or become power obsolete. 23/24" screen is NATIVE HD Resolution 1920 x 1200 (1080) - not so the iMac 20".
kftrainer
Apr 3, 05:55 PM
I don't think it is a bug. It allows more screen to show when using full screen mode. The menubar re-appears when needed. Preview auto hides the menubar as well in full screen mode.
I dont know the significance of the big gray bar on top of the page where it blocks a portion of the page when the menu bar is coming out of auto hide -they could of made it semi transparent Hopefully they change that in the final release
I dont know the significance of the big gray bar on top of the page where it blocks a portion of the page when the menu bar is coming out of auto hide -they could of made it semi transparent Hopefully they change that in the final release
Mainyehc
Nov 28, 02:39 PM
What I meant by moderately high ante was the dollars spent, not the product.
I don't think we'll know what MS executives will do when Gates leaves until he's gone. Even Mr. B.
Don't get me wrong - I think the Zune is crap. However it's always foolish to ignore the 800 pound gorilla, even when it's lazy and clueless. They can wake up and buy clues.
Yes, of course... that "gorilla"-thing is a fairly good point. But don't forget about that pervasive M$ corporate culture. I'm not talking about laborious employees, like programmers or designers, which are mostly very talented people (it's not their fault - at least, not of all of them - that they have to deal with dumb business decisions and craptastic 10-20-year-old-code). I'm talking about management, which, as it seems, is quite rotten at Microsoft, and probably not just at the core. And to make things worse, there is no "Jobs" waiting on the wings to salvage Microsoft from itself, and that will be the sole reason why they won't last long (would've Apple had, if not for Steve and NeXT?)...
As for buying clues, sure! Maybe they'll hire someone from outside. But naaah, they're too proud to change their ways, I guess... They didn't do it in 20 years time, so why would they now? Sure, the XBox was a small glimpse of "innovation" (albeit not THAT useful for their survival as a company), but meh, a bit lackluster while compared with iPod+iTunes (which, ironically, were partly developed by outsiders) and the effect they had on Apple...
And as for their investment, I STILL don't get it! I mean, they didn't even bother about condensing the Zune to be more attractive... Is its thickness a side effect of having a WiFi chip inside, or a reflex of M$'s design team's incompetence at "refreshing" a 3rd party product? Was it an item SO EXPENSIVE to "develop"? And they didn't took the steps to develop an interesting alternative to the click wheel, anyway. AND its interface, from what I can tell (I haven't had the chance to try it yet, as I live in Europe... :rolleyes: :D ), is nothing special, it's just an iPod-like menu scheme with some wallpapers plastered underneath it... Big deal!
Look at the nano and the shuffle (and even the 5G). Now there are some examples of some impressive and probably expensive industrial design...
I don't think we'll know what MS executives will do when Gates leaves until he's gone. Even Mr. B.
Don't get me wrong - I think the Zune is crap. However it's always foolish to ignore the 800 pound gorilla, even when it's lazy and clueless. They can wake up and buy clues.
Yes, of course... that "gorilla"-thing is a fairly good point. But don't forget about that pervasive M$ corporate culture. I'm not talking about laborious employees, like programmers or designers, which are mostly very talented people (it's not their fault - at least, not of all of them - that they have to deal with dumb business decisions and craptastic 10-20-year-old-code). I'm talking about management, which, as it seems, is quite rotten at Microsoft, and probably not just at the core. And to make things worse, there is no "Jobs" waiting on the wings to salvage Microsoft from itself, and that will be the sole reason why they won't last long (would've Apple had, if not for Steve and NeXT?)...
As for buying clues, sure! Maybe they'll hire someone from outside. But naaah, they're too proud to change their ways, I guess... They didn't do it in 20 years time, so why would they now? Sure, the XBox was a small glimpse of "innovation" (albeit not THAT useful for their survival as a company), but meh, a bit lackluster while compared with iPod+iTunes (which, ironically, were partly developed by outsiders) and the effect they had on Apple...
And as for their investment, I STILL don't get it! I mean, they didn't even bother about condensing the Zune to be more attractive... Is its thickness a side effect of having a WiFi chip inside, or a reflex of M$'s design team's incompetence at "refreshing" a 3rd party product? Was it an item SO EXPENSIVE to "develop"? And they didn't took the steps to develop an interesting alternative to the click wheel, anyway. AND its interface, from what I can tell (I haven't had the chance to try it yet, as I live in Europe... :rolleyes: :D ), is nothing special, it's just an iPod-like menu scheme with some wallpapers plastered underneath it... Big deal!
Look at the nano and the shuffle (and even the 5G). Now there are some examples of some impressive and probably expensive industrial design...
drewyboy
May 2, 04:47 PM
No, Microsoft have not got it right. There should be not need for a specific tool to uninstall applications. applications should be self-contained and be deletable with the press of a button�
Amen my brother!!! Preach it!
Amen my brother!!! Preach it!
Benguitar
Nov 26, 04:02 PM
Lighten up, guy.:)
I know, :p
I didn't know they had Lego Games on the iPad.....
:eek: Want.
I know, :p
I didn't know they had Lego Games on the iPad.....
:eek: Want.
apb3
Aug 16, 11:47 AM
Not hard for Apple to stop this with something like a digital signature allowing your pod to only sync with your library
Oh great! more DRM....I don't think that's the way to go from a PR standpoint as far as Apple is concerned and in terms of what makes iTunes and the iPod sell so well ... and not as easy as you make it seem. Also, I think this may iimpact one of the features I use most, Lib sharing at home.
Agreed but this feature could be used for you to listen to your friends ipod music if they have a song they want you to hear OR in the work place. You should be in range for at least 8 hrs of the day :p
Shared music libs already address this. And again, the cost/benefit analysis of what we need to expend to do this power-wise, price-wise, PR-wise, etc... (in my opinion) just don't cut it.
Oh great! more DRM....I don't think that's the way to go from a PR standpoint as far as Apple is concerned and in terms of what makes iTunes and the iPod sell so well ... and not as easy as you make it seem. Also, I think this may iimpact one of the features I use most, Lib sharing at home.
Agreed but this feature could be used for you to listen to your friends ipod music if they have a song they want you to hear OR in the work place. You should be in range for at least 8 hrs of the day :p
Shared music libs already address this. And again, the cost/benefit analysis of what we need to expend to do this power-wise, price-wise, PR-wise, etc... (in my opinion) just don't cut it.
theBigD23
May 2, 07:01 PM
I feel the same way. I just want to delete an app that delete all of the junk that comes with it. Just moving it to e trash does not do that. Some programs have an uninstall and some don't. That's more confusing for people.
This concept might seem alien to a lot of MacRumours users, but being a 'switcher', the method of deleting any app on OS X currently seems very ad hoc. I've been a mac user now for about 4 years and yet the idea of having to delete an app by dragging it to the trash seems very... strange. You never know if you've deleted ALL of that program.
Microsoft have managed to get one thing right in Windows. A specific tool (Add/Remove Programs) to delete a program. That's something that I genuinely feel is lacking in OS X and this idea of clicking and holding in LaunchPad makes sense. It's imple enough: most users who own an iPhone will have no trouble in adopting this method. And what's more, it makes it instantly accessible to anyone who uses a mac. In addition, it goes a step further than Microsoft. It avoids making more novice users from having to delve in to a complex window of settings. A step in the right direction? I think so!
So personally, I think this is a very simple yet very effective change to make to OS X and should be a welcome sign of the things to come in Lion!
This concept might seem alien to a lot of MacRumours users, but being a 'switcher', the method of deleting any app on OS X currently seems very ad hoc. I've been a mac user now for about 4 years and yet the idea of having to delete an app by dragging it to the trash seems very... strange. You never know if you've deleted ALL of that program.
Microsoft have managed to get one thing right in Windows. A specific tool (Add/Remove Programs) to delete a program. That's something that I genuinely feel is lacking in OS X and this idea of clicking and holding in LaunchPad makes sense. It's imple enough: most users who own an iPhone will have no trouble in adopting this method. And what's more, it makes it instantly accessible to anyone who uses a mac. In addition, it goes a step further than Microsoft. It avoids making more novice users from having to delve in to a complex window of settings. A step in the right direction? I think so!
So personally, I think this is a very simple yet very effective change to make to OS X and should be a welcome sign of the things to come in Lion!
twoodcc
Dec 31, 05:31 PM
Sorry you couldn't have stayed in 4th place for longer lyzardking... but at least you can claim you were there! :D And you are getting more points for the team!
And it looks like mc68k is definitly going to be our first to the big 10 mil!! You are cooking right now with over 600k ppw - as Jim Carey would say (in Mask) "smokin"!
I have now organized my machines with five (linux) in the cold basement, and the 2 win/gpu machines in 4u boxes I got on ebay in the rack with the mac. I spent christmas day, snowbound, rerouting the wiring (and cleaning the "computer room" so everything at least looks much better. I actually got 4 4u cases so I have room to grow, they were $28 each plus $17? each for shipping. 4u is about the same size as a normal tower case so everything fits in nicely. I will post some pics soon.
sounds nice. looking forward to seeing the pics
Doesn't look like I'll be fifth for that long (looking over a shoulder at a quickly approaching twoodcc)
:cool:
ha. well it'll be a little while before i catch up to you.
also, congrats to rreini for reaching 1 million points!
And it looks like mc68k is definitly going to be our first to the big 10 mil!! You are cooking right now with over 600k ppw - as Jim Carey would say (in Mask) "smokin"!
I have now organized my machines with five (linux) in the cold basement, and the 2 win/gpu machines in 4u boxes I got on ebay in the rack with the mac. I spent christmas day, snowbound, rerouting the wiring (and cleaning the "computer room" so everything at least looks much better. I actually got 4 4u cases so I have room to grow, they were $28 each plus $17? each for shipping. 4u is about the same size as a normal tower case so everything fits in nicely. I will post some pics soon.
sounds nice. looking forward to seeing the pics
Doesn't look like I'll be fifth for that long (looking over a shoulder at a quickly approaching twoodcc)
:cool:
ha. well it'll be a little while before i catch up to you.
also, congrats to rreini for reaching 1 million points!
Tomorrow
Apr 20, 03:46 PM
Were your other cars manual? The Camaro isn't helping your argument any more than the Lotus is helping mine.
;)
What argument? My main point is that I hate driving, and a manual transmission doesn't help me enjoy it any more than an automatic.
;)
What argument? My main point is that I hate driving, and a manual transmission doesn't help me enjoy it any more than an automatic.
jav6454
Mar 24, 08:12 PM
Okay, so it's more power hungry. Not an issue on a Mac Pro workstation, though. Anything else?
Yes, it's an issue. Mac Pros don't carry heavy duty PSUs.
Yes, it's an issue. Mac Pros don't carry heavy duty PSUs.
KirkL
Apr 3, 07:26 AM
Stickies contents are now scrollable. I think this was the case in DP1 as well.
This will be a lifesaver for me! I hate how I have to manually resize the stickies if there's more info in them. Nice to see Apple looked at nearly everything for refinement :D
This will be a lifesaver for me! I hate how I have to manually resize the stickies if there's more info in them. Nice to see Apple looked at nearly everything for refinement :D
